Air Vs. Ground Balance Battlefield 5


Hi my name is Chris and this is Battle(non)sense Battlefield is one of the few franchises which
features combined arms combat, where you can drive a tank, pilot an aircraft or enjoy infantry
combat. But during the last few years players on the
ground did complain a lot abut how annoying those pilots could be, as they were able to
constantly rain fire down on them. This is a game design issue that DICE quick
frankly created themselves, when they provided jets and helicopters with infinite ammo in
Battlefield 3, and then even added auto repair in Battlefield 4. As a result, players on the ground did no
longer catch a break from the constant air attacks, as pilots could stay over one part
of the map unless someone managed to shoot them down. Now, even though Battlefield 2 also had its
balancing issues with air units, it did not suffer from this specific problem, as pilots
were forced away from the objectives since the ammo of jets and helicopters was limited,
and there was no auto repair. So to re-arm and repair their jet or helicopter,
pilots had to fly over their team’s airstrip at low altitude or visit a helipad. This caused that pilots had to carefully choose
which target to engage and they had to aim precisely as you did not want to run out of
ammo on your way back to your base, especially in an attack helicopter. So, this design not only caused that piloting
an aircraft was quite challenging, it also meant that players on the ground could catch
a break between the attacks of the air units. In Battlefield 5 planes spawn with limited
ammo which they can resupply by flying through one of these checkpoints in the air. And the self-repair feature won’t get you
back to 100HP. So, with these 2 measures, DICE shift the
gameplay of air units towards what it was like before Battlefield 3. However, what we have seen in the footage
from EA Play does not go far enough to ensure that ground units don’t get hammered by
the planes constantly, nor does it make piloting these planes that much more interesting. So here is what I would like DICE to consider
to address these issues. First of all, pilots must not able to self-repair
their plane, nor should they bring back auto repair. While small arms fire must be able damage
planes, DICE has to make sure that they do not turn them into paper planes. The goal is to allow infantry players force
pilots to break of their attack, so that they cannot do one strafing run after the other
over the same spot of the map, but they must not be able to easily shoot a plane down. When a pilot runs out of ammo, or needs to
get his plane repaired, then it would be ideal to have him travel back to an airstrip, where
he does a low altitude flyby like in Battlefield 2. But there are limitations to what DICE can
still do to the map design, and an airstrip simply won’t fit into the theme or design
of some of the maps that have already been created. So, this suggestion is not feasible. In the Battlefield 5 gameplay from EA Play
we have seen that players can fly through a big checkpoint in the air to resupply their
weapons. I suggest that DICE moves these further away
from the objectives on the ground, to provide the players on the ground with the much needed
break between the attacks of the pilots, so that they can push forward to the objectives. But having the pilot fly through just one
of these icons in the air to get his plane fully repaired and rearmed would be a very
dull game mechanic. So instead I suggest that this icon works
as an entry point to a flight path that the pilot must follow. Along this path there are then multiple checkpoints
where each provides a specific amount of ammo and health points for his plane. So to get a plane fully repaired and rearmed
the pilot must hit all checkpoints along the flight path. In order to prevent that this gets very repetitive,
the game should randomly present the player with a different path to follow and randomly
place the checkpoints along this path. I know that this mechanics looks a bit arcady,
but since we won’t get airstrips or carriers on every map, we have to work with what the
game provides. However, a nice side effect of this flight
path is that DICE could use it to teach players new manoeuvres so these could even act like
a small ingame tutorial, or mini game. With this design DICE would not only increase
the skill ceiling for pilots. They would also allow infantry players to
use small arms fire to get pilots to break of their constant attacks while not turning
them into paper planes, and the players on the ground would finally catch longer breaks
between the attacks of the pilots so that they can advance towards the objectives. So, what do you think about this proposal. Does it go far enough to achieve a better
balance between ground and air, or does it go too far. Let me know in the comments down below. And that’s all for today. If you enjoyed this video then please give
it a like, subscribe for more and I hope to see you next time! Until then, have a nice day and take care, my name is Chris and this was Battle(non)sense

53 thoughts on “Air Vs. Ground Balance Battlefield 5

  1. Pilots shouldn't be able to farm. They should be last in line behind infantry and tanks.

    The result of giving pilots too much power is seen currently in Bf1 and they are getting shit on for it

  2. Action and reaction is what BF (or war) is about, since 1942. There's always a way to counter. Only noobs who don't play smart and together are complaining about balance issues all the time. BF is not COD (although BF1 and prolly BFV gets close unfortunately). The reality is there was never a huge balance issue aka overpowered vehicles or anything since 1942 and Desert Combat days, just incapable people who don't want to adapt. DICE should just stop listening to complaints and redo BF2 for the next release. If there was a war game with fusion bombs, those people would prolly complain about them being OP as well 😉

  3. The air checkpoint thing is interesting but not doable. Imagine having to go through the checkpoint while being chased by an enemy fighter. That would doom your plane with no chance to come back making dogfights a matter of who is the lucky pilot with a fully armed plane versus the one with low ammo/health.
    I think that overall the airstrip is the better choice and to prevent enemy fighters to come and take you out while doing a flyby, I'd say ad AI flak to guard you, kind of like war thunder. To balance this and prevent pilots to camp the airfield, the flak should only work when the gear is down and the plane is landing, so that you can't just fly low altitude circles around your airfield to clear our pursuing bandits.
    After all, landing in battlefield has never been difficult and if a pilot can't land their plane… well then probably they shouldn't be in the seat of that aircraft to begin with.

  4. Since I have played more or less competitive in BF2 I see only one thing and that never changed. EA or DICE don't really give much about the community and their opinion. The BF series got more arcady because it sells good. And that's all they will ever care about.

    But thanks for trying to make a change!

  5. Experienced pilot here from all Battlefields , the problem is not with planes being overpowered. It’s the ground players not utilizing resources correctly. Besides Stationary Aa’s, there are LMG’s, K-Bullets, Mobile AA tanks, and now and AA rocket guns to take down planes. The issue with BF1 was that it was a step down in technology, people were used to having auto lock on weapons and rapid firing aa tanks that they forgot how to lead shots with the aa weapons and lmg’s. Planes are actually very easy to take down if counter measures are used correctly.

  6. no no no no! Not a air tunnel mini game, seriously a MINIGAME inside BATTLEFIELD? Yuck! It wasn't perfect in BF2 as that lead to a lot of base spamming – not letting enemy fighters of the ground. The virtual resupply points now are ok, as they can be tweaked and moved easily after player feedback.

  7. this idea honestly sounds awful
    you said it yourself, it'll be arcady.
    i feel like the best way to go about this system is to keep the one checkpoint design, but have it as a long flat horizontal strip in the air (close to the ground)
    it would act as a kind of virtual runway, keeping the feel of what a real runway would be while achieving the same goals as the other two systems would have

  8. They don’t need to make an airstrip. Doing a low pass over your team’s deployment area should be sufficient enough to give breaks between aerial attacks. Having to do a mini game in the middle of a match will get tedious and annoying very quickly, regardless if it’s randomly generated or not. It also opens you to getting raped by AA or other planes around you while you take your focus off them and instead onto a Superman 64 minigame.

  9. The planes in BF1 were actually way more annoying than in BF4. In BF1 they were slower and had more powerful explosives with higher splash damage.

  10. The solution is simple : Implement airfields into the maps, fly over them with low attitude to repair and rearm a plane as it was in bf2. Sometimes, like you have shown in the video, pilots arent able to repair 100% armor in one fly-by. That means they have to fly over the airfield a second time which costs the pilots a fair amount of time until they can attack the enemy and support the team with 100% armor.

  11. If you want to do this, then buff the aircrafts so they are actually able to dominate ground targets. Remove small arms fire, bring back limited 3D spotting and give them enough ammo to strafe 3-4 tines. Otherwise your KPM would be lower than a camping sniper

  12. Battlefield veteran since '42 here, and I reckon this method makes sense- since they don't have the more ideal runways anymore. I don't agree that infantry should be able to dish enough damage to force a pilot to break off an attack though. In 42, a soldier was helpless under a strafing run, but nobody complained. If enemy pilots are shooting up infantry at their leisure, that's a failure of your side to contest the air. The solution was to get your own pilots up so that the true rock-scissors-paper gameplay was restored. Combine that with the fact a soldier can aim in any direction at any time from anywhere, vs the predictable easily spotted flightpath of an aircraft that can only shoot immediately forwards, and it breaks the game to allow significant aircraft damage from infantry. BF1 suffered from this, along with its massively over powered AA guns. They better tone those down in BFV, especially now that they are mobile. Just follow BF1942's balance- that got the balance right straight out of the box

  13. i really hope they make low altitude aa sorta op, so fighters will be too far away to get good hits on ground, and encourage bombers to go after ground, and fighters to go after air

  14. Since most of the map and game play in BF1 was made for the quick shooting COD type of player not much else was left for the players who liked how BF used to be so they were left with flying or sniping. some of the pilotes became very good at it and then off course they needed to be nerfed because they messed up the youtubers KD/ratio. I used to fly alot in BF1 and always, always woundered why noone went over to the AA gun. Very little team work and sacrifice for the team because it wouldn't show up in kills.So Dice nerfed the planes into almost being useless. Seeing gameplay of BFV it is clear that the map we see is made for the same COD players with lots of obsticles and trenches for them to run up to the enemy so that close combat where the reaction fast player will always have the upper hand. Not much of that BF1942 or BF2 left. I would want the landing strips back. Another negative thing with BFV is that DICE refuses to even talk about going back to handing over controll over the servers to the once renting them so that ping rate can be controlled and region lock can be put on. On PS and Xbox gameplay is destroyed by high pingers from other regions that punishes the once with the best connection the most. It sadens me to say, but I do think BF1 was the last BF for me. BFV gameplay only confirms what I suspected it would be, COD on a big map.

  15. I disagree, I played thousands of hours in BF4's vehicles and I have to say that the vehicle balance in BF4 is perfect. every vehicle is OP and has its own challenger.
    – The AA is extremely good against air vehicles but it needs to be covered by tanks cause it's completely useless against land
    vehicles and pro pilots.
    -Tanks and LAVs are good against infantry but they also get destroyed by jets and helicopters.
    -Jets and helicopters deal with both air and land vehicles but they are also attacked by everything.
    in BF1, tanks are super slow and they can't survive in tight areas full of infantry unlike in BF4. so, they camp on hills away from objectives and this gives a huge advantage to planes where they can pinpoint where everyone is and act accordingly.
    The only thing that was not good in BF4 is the maps design.

  16. – Limit ammo more of aircraft.
    – Make them land and reload for 1min stationary.
    – Autoland with shorter runways.
    – Make mandatory targets for only aircraft to fight with so they need first to destroy there own objectives before they can engage ground players.
    – Model module damage instead of hitpoints that make flying aircraft more difficult to make aiming harder=land to repair module damage.

  17. When it´s time for you to move over to Insurgency-Sandstorm or something similar cuz let´s be honest BFV doesn´t look too promising?

  18. Instead of resupply markers, any aircraft in need of repairs or armaments go towards the edge of the map (towards main base) to resupply, which would take about 30 seconds to reach.

    When the edge of the map is reached, a small cut scene shows a friendly plane passing by you going towards the battlefield while you're returning home.
    The camera should then pan to the new plane for you to control, or make the new plane an actual ally (where you get sent back to the spawn screen).

    As for AA, why not use flak rounds? You have to guess how far the enemy plane is, aim and lead correctly, and the plane will take damage on how accurate you were

  19. One issue I see with this is it complicates the pilots view, and enemy pilots are sure to often camp these points without the clutter in view. I believe it would put a bad taste in some pilots mouths. Personally I miss vehicles being located on the maps, stealing vehicles from the opponent was one of the highlights of the battlefield experience (for me)

  20. Sure bf2s plains needed to head back but MY GOSH when they come they are imposibble. If the map you were on had no AA tank you were doomed if a good pilot got on the plains. Explosive bullets on the jets honestly were beyond bullshit -.- and the stationery AAs always were a joke to all jets everywere -.-

  21. I like the idea of a flight path to resupply, but overall I am just super excited to get some WW2 air combat, I love those planes

  22. Chris I just hope that they have a certain type of region or map lock for the aircraft. Something that prevents aircraft from flying all the way over to the enemy bases or flying near the enemy repair and ammo stations in the sky. If a pilot has already broken contact from the battlefield and is getting ammo and repairs he shouldn't have to worry about being hunted while that happens.

  23. I would prefer increasing minor damage from small arms fire affects wings & pylons causing the pilot to fall back to the edge of the map to be respawned in a new fresh plane. This minor damage would oppose AA & fire from other planes . ie two damage pools One for actual health, one for functional stability.

  24. Chris, I think we both can agree that Battlefield 2 is/was such a rare and pure gold of a multiplayer game and it's very unfortunate that Dice continues it's way into lets make battlefield more casual experience instead of retaining and improving on these challenging but primely fun mechanics in game… 🙁

    EDIT: bf2 best bf ever…

  25. I want this game to be as accurate to a real war as possible. In real life air to ground is more powerful… thats the way it should remain. I do like the idea of landing the vehicle to resupply though! But flying through checkpoints to resupply seems like a bit of a let down at this stage, the same as female soldiers with mechanical arms!

  26. Normally not comment here in youtube at all but this was really shit… Airbalance is shit already. Its so easy to take down planes, even very good pilots. 99% of people that play game are only too stupid these days… you cant balance that… Really that is ridicilous how easy its to take down planes in Bf1 or even BF4 and guided, Still you can go 100-1 KD in Bf1 at Operations and no ones even try to take you down. Really people are too stupid.

  27. The Air to ground balance is the best in Battlefield 2 so far and it is also very realistic, which in turn improves the skills of a player piloting a jet or a chopper

  28. As the spotting system in bf5 will change and you wont probably be spotted all the time like in bf1, i think it wont be that easy for pilots to identify infantry on the ground anymore. They have to think of this also while balancing

  29. It's a start but it isn't far enough. I see no reason why they cannot incorporate the system from BF2; designing each map with runways and/or heli pads – yes I'm aware heli's weren't prevalent in WW2 – should not be an issue. The BF2 system is a proven and tested one, yet DICE insists on shoehorning these ridiculous looking mechanics.

  30. These are good ideas but right now it seems like pilots cant even spot ground targets so planes aren't much of a factor. We will have to see what Dice cooks up to remedy that.

  31. If anyone suggests that nerfing airplanes is a good idea then they are noobs with no skill. Planes need to be useful, otherwise they will be a waste of space. Planes need to be buffed, not nerfed. Planes are supposed to be scary for infantry, they're supposed to be effective in the battlefield.

  32. Air to ground is so weak in bf5 bc the plane bullets dont do any splash damage which makes it only viable against air. You cant hit small targets with it and if you do it does very little damage

  33. You simply should not be able to reliably get 100+ kills every… single… friggen.. game. Thats what happened with pilots in bf1. Pilots being able to self-repair in the air, is absolutely ridicilous and throws any risk involved in using an airplane, out of the window.

  34. Here you are calling for air vehicles up-time to be nerfed when my main takeaway from watching top Battlefield pilots fly in the BFV Alpha is that noseguns are weak as piss against ground, to the point where you often can't even kill a single infantry player in one pass. I'm fine with your proposed changes, but only if the lethality of noseguns is restored to what it used to be.

  35. not a fan of your propose min game system to reload or repair. If you haven't already played in the Beta in an aircraft then you should try and you'll see just how hard it is in an attack aircraft to get a ground kill. Without 3D spotting now aircraft all but a waste of time, and with AA's been able to be moved you can be kill from almost anywhere on the map.

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