Michael Hayden – “The Assault on Intelligence” in Trump’s Post-Truth America | The Daily Show


My guest tonight
is a retired four-star general, former director
of the CIA and NSA, and author,
whose latest book is called The Assault on Intelligence: American National Security
in an Age of Lies. Please welcome Michael Hayden. -♪ ♪
-(cheering and applause) Welcome, sir. Take a seat. -Welcome back to the show.
-Thank you. It’s good to have you here.
The last time I saw you, uh, we were debating
the possibilities of Trump having a presidency and what that presidency
could look like if it carried on. I-I recall the conversation. It has now come to pass. -(laughs)
-Um, and your book, your book is speaking directly -to the situation we’re in now.
-Right. The Assault on Intelligence. You make your point
throughout the book about how Trump’s lies
have wrecked havoc on the intelligence community. What does that mean? So-so, let me kind of
structure it as how I approach it
in the book. It’s kind of
a three-layer problem, and it’s really important
to understand the layers. All right? Layer one is us. All right?
It’s our political culture, which has moved into what
the Oxford Dictionary calls -“a post-truth world,”
-Right. in which we make decisions
based upon emotion, preference, allegiance,
tribe, grievance– -not on facts.
-Right. Not on data. Donald Trump– we were here two years ago
talking about this– Donald Trump recognized that. He saw it. He exploited it
during the campaign, and I think he has worsened it with some of his behavior
and language while he is president. -Right. -He’s riding
that post-truth wave. And then, finally,
to make this really complicated, we’ve got a foreign adversary kind of coming through
the perimeter wire on us, recognizing what’s going on here
and exploiting it. -Right.
-And it’s all based, Trevor, on the concept
of truth or post-truth. How is it that it benefits Trump
and nobody else? I mean, shouldn’t something like
living in a post-truth world also damage Donald Trump
as the person in power? Well, um, it will over time, because history has shown… And I-I actually, I hope
people enjoy reading the book, but I really enjoyed
writing and researching it. I got out of my circle
and talked to a lot of folks -Right. -who I would not
normally have talked to: philosophers,
historians, and so on. And what they point out, that the approach
the president is taking– this kind of post-truthism,
which we’ve seen elsewhere– it doesn’t deliver. I mean, you’ve got to
base decisions on reality, -Right.
-based on facts. So over time, I think
we’ll recognize we’re d… we’re speeding
down a cul-de-sac here. -Right.
-But it’s gonna take time. Now, why do you say
that it wrecks havoc -on the intelligence community
specifically? -Yeah. ‘Cause I understand democracy, -I understand
the American people -Right. being affected by this, but why does the intelligence
community get affected? Surely they, uh,
they’re immune to this. Not really. And let-let me try
to describe it this way. The high friction points
of the administration -with the broader society have
been with intelligence, -Uh-huh. law enforcement, the courts, -journalism, science,
-Right. scholarship. What do they all have in common? They’re all fact-based. -They’re all evidence-based
enterprises. -Right. And that’s where we see
the-the friction with-with a style of governance that-that is post-fact, -not based on-on hard reality.
-Right. So we’re…
It’s really interesting. I kind of counted ’em off
on my fingers. Uh, last time we were here,
all right, -the intel digit was over here.
-Right, right, right. Because these folks over here
had serious questions about how we acquired data. -Right. -You and I have had
that conversation. Uh, that’s not the argument
today. These folks over here
welcome the intel guys into the circle now, because– we’ll get back to arguing
about how we acquired it later– -but right now
they recognize us, -Right. -like them, as data people.
-Uh-huh. And it’s-it’s
the fact-based enterprises that feel under siege. Do you understand though
why some people would argue that Donald Trump
is well within his rights to, uh, attack the-the
intelligence communities? Because, in some ways,
the intelligence communities have been responsible
for misinformation themselves. I mean,
one of the classic examples was the flawed
intelligence report -that led America
to the war in-in Iraq. -Right. So if somebody says, “Yeah,
but Donald Trump is saying these fake things,”
some might argue, “Yeah, but the CIA and the NSA
and all these organizations also did that, and that’s why
America’s in Iraq now.” Great question. You and I
kind of worked our way through that issue.
And I-I mentioned the last time I was here, I was in the room. I voted for it.
I believed it to be true. We were wrong,
but-but the difference is we were trying to pursue -an accurate picture
of objective reality. -Right. We-we got it wrong, all right? I mean, life’s hard,
and-and sometimes, even with your best effort, fact-based institutions fail
to get the true picture. -Right. -That’s not what
we’re arguing about today. What we’re arguing about
is decision-making that is indifferent
to objective reality, that is based
on these other things– preference, grievance,
tribal loyalty. It’s interesting that you say
preference and tribal loyalty, specifically,
because, um, this week, -Israel’s prime minister,
Benjamin Netanyahu, -Yeah. um, delivered a presentation
where he spoke about, uh, the proof that Iran had lied about
their nuclear weapons program. Now, there seems to be
conflicting schools of thought on this.
Some say Iran hasn’t lied. This was old information that Netanyahu tried
to present as new. Others are saying, “No,
there-there was something new.” Is there something new
in discovering -that Iran kept
the-the information, -Yeah. the archives
on how to make nuclear weapons? So, so I think–
beyond think, I know– this was baked in already
to our nuclear negotiations. Uh, I walked into President Bush
and Vice President Cheney, late ’07, and said,
“I know you’re not gonna welcome “this message,
but the Iranians appear, “about four years ago, to have
stopped building the bomb. “They’re doing the other stuff,
the missiles, the centrifuges. “But the building of the bomb,
we think they stopped. “And-and, Mr. President,
this is in absence of evidence. -“We’ve got evidence of absence.
-Right. We know, we know that they’ve…
that they’ve stopped.” Now, number one,
Iran never admitted -that they were building a bomb
up until 2003. -Uh-huh. They denied it. They lied. We knew that. What you’ve got
from the prime minister is a lot of the fine print with regard to where
the Iranians were. But the fact that
they were building a bomb and that they lied about it,
already accepted, already known, and, as I said, already baked in
to our approach. So, it’s interesting that
he came out and presented all of this information
the way he did. You know, it was
a big power point presentation. Iran lied. And he had all these CDs,
and it was very, very dramatic. I mean, he revealed everything,
very theatrical as well. It almost felt like
he wasn’t playing to the intelligence community
and other leaders– it seemed like
it was an audience of one that he was playing to–
someone who likes big pictures -and easy words to understand.
-(laughter) Could it be that Netanyahu
will now be the reason Donald Trump decides
to definitively pull out -of the Iran deal?
-And, you know, he has to make that
decision again in 12 days. -Right. -This is not
happening by accident. So I do think there may have
been some theatrics there, giving the president
some additional motivation, -Right.
-additional top cover, perhaps, if the president really does
want to rip up the deal. But a lot of folks like me, including the people in
my old jobs in this government, -Mm-hmm.
-have pointed out that, no, no, we knew this, this is old data. So here’s a case
where the fact-based guys– intelligence community,
in this case, journalism– they’re holding their ground,
and they’re saying: we’d like to have the fine
print, that’s really useful, but in terms of the broad plot,
nah, we knew this. Let’s talk about
one additional thing that you lay out in the book,
as you said, the structuring the book
into thirds. -The third of Russia.
-Yeah. Russia and the bots and Facebook
has become a story that has been all over the news. Many have labeled this
as one of the biggest threats to America’s democracy,
because they’re pushing forward the post-truth world. Some might say Russia
is only doing to America what America
has been doing to them. How do you respond to this
as somebody who knows, better than anybody,
what America did to influence, -or not, Russia’s elections?
-Other than as an element of American policy, to support what you and I
would call democracy, there are no comparisons
between what we do and what the Russians
have done to our election. Remember
my three-layer cake here, -Right.
-and the biggest problem is us? Um, that enables the Russians
to mess with our heads. I mean, they’ve actually made
a run at the Norwegians, too. It didn’t work– because Norway
isn’t a fractured society. And so what
the Russians are doing is using high technology, an approach
to information dominance, which I have
to tell you, Trevor, in terms of its elegance
as military doctrine, is really quite good. And if you read
the Russian manuals about this, it’s quite revealing
as some really serious thought. They call it “contactless war,” where we can use
informational means to effect the target population
of our adversary. But they’re only able to do that
because of our own weaknesses. Look, cards face up.
I mean, I’ll be the last one to say that our government
hasn’t ever conducted a covert influence campaign. -Right. -All right? But there’s
a iron law of physics with regard to covert influence,
all right? You never create fractures. The only way you can make
covert influence work is to identify
preexisting fractures and then worsen them
and exploit them. That’s what
the Russians are doing. Wow. It’s a fascinating book.
You get into it in depth, and it is terrifying and also
enlightening at the same time. -Thank you so much for being
on the show. -Thank you. Great having you back. The Assault on Intelligence
is available now. Michael Hayden, everybody.

100 thoughts on “Michael Hayden – “The Assault on Intelligence” in Trump’s Post-Truth America | The Daily Show

  1. 1. Play innocent and not own up to the intelligence agencies and their malicious history and actions- CHECK
    2. Don’t say anything bad about Israel- CHECK
    3. Pretend Russia is god awful and their actions are 1000x worse than the US’s documented attempts on assassinating politicians in other countries- CHECK

    Go head and clap for him tho

  2. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Trump supporters will not like this video…

    Edit: and will probably attack this head of NSA and CIA as somehow partison, biased, yada yada…

  3. I wish the Daily Show would fix their volume issue. It's always so much quieter than any other youtube video (until you get to the end graphics and it's -BAM!- and way too loud).

  4. Michael Hayden and many like him, from an era when America Was Truly Great. Not the lying era of made up facts and an assault on democracy.
    His book, Madeline Albrights book should be must reading.

  5. The world moved to post truth because the CIA etc lie they lie for whatever reason good or bad they lie and they have no right to keep info from the world like that. Its better if we use our human instinct other than fact. Racism was supposedly based on facts we are way passed that. Emotion all the way. One love

  6. Hayden should go on a lecture tour. I'd pay to listen to him. I already plan to check my public library to see if they have his book.

  7. Just watched a recent news video of this "friendly uncle type" (who's most likely to rape your toddlers and impregnate his post-pubescent nieces) named Michael Hayden full-throatedly endorsing without exception the LEAD TORTURER AT AN AMERICAN OVERSEAS (in Thailand of all places, that terrorist hotbed – "covertly" speaking) BLACK SITE WHO ALSO DESTROYED THE VIDOE EVIDENCE OF THOSE TORTURE SESSIONS SHE DIRECTED! Hayden and his all too numerous ilk ADORE this 21st century version of the BITCH OF BUCHENWALD because she is a "patriot" who merely conducted "enhanced interrogations," you know, just like the unprovoked invasion in 2003 of Iraq was a "preemptive war!" IT'S THE FUCKING FOREIGN-GOVERNMENT-DESTROYING CIA, FOR CHRISSAKES – AND NOW THEY WANT A SWAGGERING TORTURER TO LEAD IT?

  8. Americans only hear what they want to hear, the facts don't come into it. That's why they are so gullible.

  9. The Biggest Threats to American Democracy

    World Establishment individuals (headed in controlling share by Rothschild) that OWN ALL of our Federal Reserve and MS News Media, including the "AP" and the Power of Ownership of these 2 most powerful tools: Money and Information.

    The thorn in the American society is a direct result of that ownership – (they select who gets air-time in political races, based on both profitability due to seedy tabloid-type potentials AND the value of controlling that/those candidates) and (base it on the under-education, over prejudice, and adolescent ego mindedness, of the majority of the public) = EXAMPLE
    Trump + The Trump Fans AMD under the feeding of Fox News

    Can ya hear me now?

  10. Hayden is trying to make the case that the intelligence community is hurt by the post truth era, when in fact it is a wet dream come true for them. They harness the full potential of the post truth era by filling the internet with lies and counter intelligence. For them the gloves have come off and they can employ any dirty tactic in the book without restraint.

  11. How history will read in 100 years or less

    2018 – the era when – Intelligent Journalism had to be covert and was filtered under the auspices of "Comedy", so the people could gain facts and reality information, in a society that was controlled by World Establishment, whom owned MS News Media, including the "AP" and the American Federal Reserve.

    The reality of a society with poor education, poor parenting, and serious Adolescent Ego-Mindedness.

    As experienced by a Sociologist

    There shall be a Benevolent Outcome 🌱

  12. (warning: long)
    There are several studies that suggest conservatives are… the way that they are because they have an amplified sense of fear.

    Not even just of specific things you'd expect, like idk, gay people or minorities. No. They are, biologically, more afraid of things in general than the average person. They shield themselves with the status quo and their comfortable preconceptions because they cannot deal with with the unfamiliar. They cannot deal with change.

    But the world has been changing faster than ever. As we advance in both sciences and education, so to does our critical thinking skills, and and as a result we become far more open to inclusion of people and cultures we deem "foreign" (even when we fucking LIVE in the US). Thus, society as a whole begins to evolve. The status quo is shaken.

    Conservatives are too afraid to accept any of this.

    To cope with their anxiety from the world and The Bad Scary Mooslumz and The Bad Scary Negross and the Bad Scary Socialists and the Bad Scary Ess Jay Doubleyous, they retreat into easily digestible lies. For them, it is all too easy to accept than complicated truths.

    Ignorance is the morphine of American society. It can reassure them of their pussy ass obsolete world views, and block the pain of being wrong away. If it can justify their fear and hatred of brown people, female people, and dudes kissing dudes, can tell them that they don't need to do any of that "critical thinking" or "research" or "tolerance" crap and that all they need to know is that God will smite all the filthy sinners/non-believers down to Hell—they'll even pluck a narcissistic, chronically lying moron from his glass tower and call him President.

    So now it comes to this. Reality itself is being regularly called into question because of the sheer amount of lies going around. But even this discussion—of the tampered elections, of choosing emotions over logic and facts, of assaults on intelligence—all of it, ALL OF IT can be traced back to weak-minded individuals too afraid that their fellow Americans and human beings are gonna give them the cooties.

  13. You liberals are idiots and it is about to be proven, well actually you being idiots has always shown. He will win 20/20

  14. His criticism of Trump is spot on and refreshing. His mention of Russia seems surface level at most and his come back on the crtisim that people are now going to question the CIA because of the "intel" provided prior to the invasion of Iraq was silly at best and complete bullshit at worst.

  15. There is nothing fact based about American foreign policy. They look for information that is convenient to act upon at any given time. The intelligence community has always been selective in sharing them with the Government and the people. No wonder Trump is happily calling everyone a liar and his own lies are strongly defended by his supporters.

  16. Only in America where we have the MORON's (Trump Administration) that can insult the intelligence. The dummying of America!

  17. We in Germany have the same Problem with the russians. They support with there "Mediabots" or "Mediacampagne" strangegroups to endeffect to destroy our local democrasy. They do the same scheme like in the US election, but customized to German environment. Our Trump is called "AfD" it is political Party, its based on fake news and haloed every russian aggression.

  18. Post-truth my ass, we have perfectly good words to describe what's happening right now: lies, delusions and stupidity. And I'm sorry to say this…but facts have had a history of not winning out, we have a multitude of cults and religions and none of them are based on any type of verifiable fact. We have also had fandoms as well for decades now , people who swear by a brand and sleep in the street to get a product and would argue with you for hours if you pointed out any fact that would tarnish their beloved gadget…this is just more of the same. Politics was less absurd because people who became politicians were human beings with more character and spine than what you see today…there was never any secret sauce, it's people that make or break a democracy.

  19. The CIA is exclusively fact-based? Yeah, Hayden got it wrong about Iraq – could happen to anyone. Except he didn't; Cheney and Rumsfeld just over ruled him and the 'Intelligence community". All those coups, deaths, betrayals of allies and real democracy advocates over the decades – just little mistakes all in a good cause ? ha ha ha This is not a good guy – maybe technically slightly less horrendous than Bloody Haspel. Maybe.

  20. Trump vs. intelligence. Trump vs. honesty. Trump vs. the United States of America, and the American people.

  21. Where does The Doctrine of Discovery 1493 comes in picture i.e. under the Truth Or the Post Truth world of Shamerica???

  22. Trump speaks to idiots. People trained to think and deduce to come to informed choice
    see the difference.

  23. The point that both men seemed to see in this interview but that Trevor was much more willing than Hayden to talk about was that when the Intel community allowed themselves to be duped by people with tribal/corporate affiliations in the run-up to Iraq, they set the scene for the post-truth world we find ourselves in today.

  24. You're giving Dotard too much credit. He's just a bumbling dumbass who fell into the trope of 'get them frothing at the mouth over something' that Republicans have been doing for years with abortion and gay marriage. He just takes it to an absurd level. There is absolutely nothing calculated or smart about what Trump does. He's an idiot who happens to be a loud-mouth and a lot of people are happy to listen to him these days. Dumb people LIKE having their poorly informed world-view validated by someone in front of a camera, and we live in a world after a black man was President, so of course the idiots are frothing at the mouth even more now than ever.

  25. ''we got it wrong, life is hard'' That's one way to put going into a war where millions lost their homes and died..

  26. How about your own penchant for lying, Hayden? And why are liberals turning to people like him when they critique Trump?

  27. He this guy serious!
    We truly believed to the Iriak WMD ?
    Even when every intelligence service in the world told them it wasn’t fact based
    Bush and his mignon have a some responsibility to bare on the post reality world

  28. Alternative Facts? A liar is a liar and cannot be trusted. Also, no regard for Science or professional opinion=dangerous

  29. You give trump too much credit. He should have been stopped by congress but congress will do nothing because they are getting what they want as a team.

  30. He is lying. How could you not know iraq had no weapons of mass destruction with your resources?? Now you are at it again with Iran.

  31. I do not think that is what’s happening at all? You can see this in literature that people are realizing there is no objective reality.

  32. USSR. 1984. #1. BEST. HOOKER. WORLD. !!!!!!!! TRUMP. USES. ALTRT. FACTS. !!!! REPUBLICANS. LOVE. LAWYERS. !!!!! GUNS. !!!!!!!!!!!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$ MONEY. !!!!!! #FUCKNRA. !!! canyonlocalfilmscom TRUMP. NEED TO. ACCEPT. REALITY. THE WAY. IT. IS. !!!!!!! DR. HUNTER S. THOMPSON. 1971. FOR. ASPEN. SHERRIFF.

  33. Fuck your advertisements. I can't even watch the fucking video all these funky ass ads. Fuck you very much Youtube

  34. Bullshit, "We got it wrong"
    The so called intelligence community knew exactly what they were getting into with Iraq and Afghanistan. Follow the money.

  35. ffs please can we not have Hayden as a voice of reason… just a year ago he was largely hated by the left now hes our best friend cause hes slightly anti trump?!??! edit: 3:39 god damn… he recognizes that this is the best time for the intel community to ally with institutions that would otherwise be at odds with their totalitarian practices so they can ally against a larger totalitarian force.. this is going downhill FAST

  36. Jon Steward former host of the Daily Show did for Trevor Noah what Phil Donahue did for Oprah Winfrey. Jon and Phil passed the torch to a good one. Trevor has made the Daily show a great mixture of good conversation and comedy. Way to go! Trevor.

  37. Well…it's really Weir-headed Hayden who's assaulting intelligence. For the uninformed out there, check out what the Nazis really did to their Jewish and other victims. This fraud is being disingenuous ….and for a political reason….if one is impressed with the fact that this clown was head of the CIA…so was Brennan, who already has been caught lying.

  38. The media manufactures consent, so whomever is President get to do what they want for a period of time. For as long as the media can hold the public at bay.

  39. Impeach, convict, remove Trump and then arrest Trump for treason, try, convict, and sentence 45 to death that is the penalty for treason.

  40. I don't think "Trump saw that" [the tribalism, indifference to facts, etc]. Trump IS it. He can exploit people's indifference to facts because he himself is indifferent to them. I don't think it's an intentional behavior on his part, it's just that he fits into this group of anti-fact belief-driven people. There's danger in presuming competence in a person that is actually driven by pathology, rather than any focused intellectual goals.

  41. Iran makes bomb!? It their country, isn't it? And if they did actually create their very own nuke are we to live under the premise that it was launched and kill them?👳

  42. Micheal Hayden I would never want to be under ur command u have sold our military to the liberal media turns my stomach for he good of the people Kavanau should give up his position? Ur full of BS'

  43. Hayden is the man behind the US government recording your every key stroke. He pushed it for years.

    Before the media was owned by the deep state they(media) used to trash him. Now he is a martyr to them. Scary shit.

  44. Trump is trying to wake up the sheep who believe the Mockingbird media. JFK was the last president to challenge the fed and CIA. These people are stupid.

  45. Like the intelligence agencies r so truthful to us, their bosses! Oh yes, i forgot how much we love mk ultra! And non consentual experimentation on us citizens! Oh yes trafficking children for sex. Why on earth would we believe this talking head? Cia is nit fact based, as it is highly politicized! Bush suh ks!

  46. Fascinating guy. I’d love to see an update interview now that things are predictably escalating with Iran.

  47. Before the war, Iraq had been under sanctions for how many years? I knew they had no weapons of mass destruction, and I'm a nobody. Does this guy seriously expect us to believe that he believed they had them. So full of shit. He's lying through his teeth.

  48. Just changed the 5.9k likes to 6k, I am so proud, it’s the first time that ever happened to me.

    Thanks to the 5999 people who made it possible 😃😁😝

  49. No accountability for them. GREAT But for little African "president" ..jail…jaill….disgusting world..

  50. Russia only played some facebook tricks on US elections and they're all crying about it
    While America is toppling countries with undemocratic militaries and supporting regimes that lead to famines abroad.
    Stop bitching. Get a taste of your own medicine. That what "Freedom" you've been spreading around tastes like, only 10x worse.

  51. Life hard….more like life lost. Also, since President Trump came into the seat, our country finally started to tackle lies more seriously.

  52. What the hell? Russia attacking American democracy is worst than all the American interference in many places of this world when they already had a democratically elected goverment? Chile, Argentina and of course Iran are prime examples of American install-regime-of-our-interests-programm,not democracies. And also the destabilization of all the Middle East based on ''mistaken inteligence''? I am am just a nobody from Europe and these guys,CIA,NSA,FBI can have access to my information at any given minute if they want to. They can find out if my urine is yellow enough. And they were mistaken about Iraq's weapons programm? What gives? Trump is a just a weak moron old man with imperial complex and unfortumately has the ability to start a war any time. A war far from America (as is common). We the rest of the world who have suffered war in our lands, dictotatorships backed from the US, and in our fragile peace we take alot of the blunt of the American foreing policy in the Middle East are insulted by Michael Hayden's brushing off of their responsibilities. Trump's assault on intelligence is a monster America has created by itself that in retrospect is quite fitting because that is the way that America has acted to everybody else. He thinks he is better than everybody else and the way he sees things (feels about them) is the correct way. Just because the likes of Michael Hayden are intelligent enough to recognise the post truth world that Trump is thriving does not exempt them at all from their responsibility of their making.

  53. Homeland, Deep State, Berlin Station, Pine Gap …. this is the guy you need to talk to. Intelligence is Power! … Don't be fooled.

  54. Wow!!! It is such a pity that we cant see truth. Trump was elected by the American people. America is a racist country. Organising is the key for our success. Lets just start growing up.

  55. What a disappointing interview after such an alluring title. The assault on the intelligence of Americans- persons, individuals, human beings, ongoing for decades, is what is most at stake.

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