The Rise of At-Home Rape Kits: Helpful or Harmful for Survivors of Assault?

100 thoughts on “The Rise of At-Home Rape Kits: Helpful or Harmful for Survivors of Assault?

  1. These would likely be used by those making false accusations. Pull a bit of semen out of a used condom and claim it was non-consensual.

  2. Out of all of this the lack of SAFE's is really concerning. A trained professional who can really guide someone through that trauma and not only get important evidence but direct them to after care is all that matters.

  3. You know where this could work? pedophilia cases or with mentally challenged victims, that way the dna alone would be enough as there's no way it was consensual and it could be done in a home environment without strangers where the victims might feel safer.

  4. I understand the sentiment to want to have an option that is less invasive and re-traumatizing, but these kits sound like a garbage idea. There is no way these will admissable in court majority of the time, and shame on them for encouraging survivors to collect inadmissable evidence on the logic that any evidence could be thrown out. That prisoner example was terrible too because its illegal for a corrections officer to have sex with a prisoner anyways, there is no consent there, so the semen sample is damning enough evidence. For most other survivors their self-provided evidence would be up to more scrutiny. If you want some comfort out of this process, then sure maybe the kits are for you. But if you want to ensure justice, why sacrifice all these things in place to witness, record evidence and back up your claims? And the medical aspect is the most important–if these kits dont come with emergency contraceptives and medications to prevent the infection of STDs, throw them in the trash.

  5. "there is never a garuntee that any single piece of evidence will be admissible in court" What a blatant false equivalency, just because sometimes police evidence is rejected doesn't mean its just as credible as you gathering your own. That's like saying just because Eisenstein might have gotten a question wrong on a maths test, I am just as proficient at maths as him because we both get questions wrong.

  6. Hospitals have so many mandated professionals they have to have on hand. I feel like having a SAFE should be one of those mandates. I live in a rural area and I can almost guarantee there isn't one SAFE at my hospital even though I know sexual assaults run rampant in rural areas as well as urban. In my mind, it just makes sense that hospitals should have AT LEAST one person on staff who has gone through SAFE training. A lot of hospitals are for-profit so an excuse of not being able to fund the training for said medical professional is logically non-existant.

  7. worse, I believe this may be used to expect women to be forensics experts in their own case. Either that or women may tamper with the evidence.

  8. My first thought wasnt anything said i see people using this a means to make allegations toward someone they didnt like or in other words make fake rape out of bad time or hold it as "evidence" should the relationship not go the way they wanted it too it may go nowhere in court but it wont stop them from trying to use this kits as "evidence", note that this is talking outside of they why of it all

  9. This home kit just gives you the evidence that they had sex with you, doctors can actually examine you and tell if it was most likely forced. Horrible idea.

  10. Can I get a job at the distribution centre? I'd love to have a list of women afraid to contact the police following a rape…
    … asking for a friend.

    (Actually a dark joke to illustrate a potential problem.)

  11. This home test makes no determination between rape and consensual sex. Only a physical exam could determine tissue damage the might be present with a violent rape. These home tests make it way too easy for a disgruntled ex GF or BF to collect a sample during or after a consensual sex event.

  12. Lit! A product that won't hold up in court and also keeps people from getting actual medical help. There's a lot more reasons to get a rape kit at a hospital like STD test, check for internal damage, etc. It's romantic and in a perfect world it would work but it would only hurt others in the long run. You basically go through all that trauma and humiliation, you suffer that process almost completely alone without professionals that understand and actually give a hecko about how you are. We should focus on making or encouraging more SAFEs rather than some lady doing an attention grab with her MeToo rape kits. Honestly, as someone who went through that sorted mess the MeToo thing rubbed me in every wrong way imaginable. Out of all the worlds all the movements you decide to profit off something that won't even work.

  13. If it helps more people come forward and take rapists to court, then it’s a good thing. Hopefully it will be allowed in courts eventually.

  14. Ignoring the issues with the kits for a moment, if there was a way to know how many people would use the kit, who otherwise wouldn't go to hospital, then this product would be beneficial. However, I understand why it almost impossible to collect that kind of data. I just hope that even by this being discussed, it helps people across the world to know that it is ok to come forward, and no one is going to pressure you to do anything you aren't happy with.

  15. The very fact that this video has been made is a positive effect of those kits. The kits themselves may be a product with many asterisks but in their critique the general public can learn a lot about the formal steps to take after an assault. This increased awareness may in turn further deter potential perpetrators.

    One of the best videos on this channel so far IMHO.

  16. "Hey we know you just got raped and you wanna be all '#girl/boypower' and '#empowerd' but to make sure your diy evidence collection is a bit more legit in court we want YOU, yes the person who was just raped and experienced possibly the worst moment of your life, to stand naked in front of this go pro and shove a cotton swab up your ass. And make sure you get a close up so it's less admissible."

    Please just go to a hospital.

  17. As a survivor this is very well intentioned but very very dangerous and I personally wouldn't use one. People already do not believe us. If we do our own kits, they wont believe those either

    Me: I thought a Rape Kit had handcuffs, duct tape, gloves, rope, bottle of ether

  19. I think these at home kits will have the opposite of the intended effect. Instead of providing people with the ability to gather evidence, I think it will actually worsen the situation we have now of not believing people when they come forward, because people will say, “if it actually happened, why didn’t you go to a hospital?” The insinuation being that the victim forged the kit.

    I think this kit could potentially be used as a weapon against people to get back at someone. It would be so easy to have consensual intercourse and then frame someone for rape after the fact. After all, there is evidence that sex took place. Obviously most people would never do something so vile, but the few bad apples will ruin it for everyone and throw the legitimacy of all at home kits into question.

    I think our best bet is to continue to improve access to medical professionals trained to provide this care, and as a society, keep working on making sure people feel like they can come forward and that they will be supported and not blamed if and when they do. 💔

  20. Well this is a whole kettle of fish that shouldn't be opened. So many reasons why. First it's taking financial advantage of those who are at that moment it happens in shock and 100% needing health care ASAP. Calling it metoo is in piss poor taste and whatsherface (the creator of the product) should be ashamed. Legal reasons being chain of evidence and what about the person who decides to screw someone else's life over after a breakup? You can't collect evidence and just store it in your fridge or filing cabinet in case you change your mind. Holy shit. As for the short of help. America is run on the almighty dollar and healthcare is a business so of course a service that is free is going to be underfunded. This shit needs to stop. Also stop trying to take advantage of people when they are in no position to be making decisions about what is right or wrong for them you money grubbing thieves.

  21. The only way that prisoner would have access to the correction officer’s semen is if he came in or around her. That is such a specific circumstance and should NOT be used as proof that “alternative” modes of evidence collection can/should be admitted, in my opinion.

    I WISH there was a less invasive, more comfortable way for people to do a rape kit and get thorough evidence. But realistically, as the product is right now, it isn’t helpful.

    Interesting idea though.

  22. how can one NOT put a bullet through their skull that creates a company that profits from people being rapped. so the company wants to profit, if rap is what sells the product, then rap is what the company wants. I can promise any company thats sell fire alarms want to ensure that house fires happen if houses couldn't catch fire, fire alarms would be a Stupid concept, and wouldn't sell.

  23. What nationality is she? I want to move there, and find love.. Have children.. Climb the mountain tops and sing the songs that I like to sing… And then dress up like a clown and surprise kids at birthday parties like my last name was Shriner.
    (Asking for a friend)

  24. As a survivor of rape, I think this is a horrible idea. These at-home rape kits are well-intentioned, but will lead to legal problems. These kits will give survivors a false sense of hope that they have admissible evidence for court when the process is more intensive than that. Interviews, pre-text phone calls, etc must be conducted to get enough evidence for a guilty verdict. The medical exam is just one piece and I strongly believe the legal system will not admit these in court because you could easily frame someone. They are just problematic all around. Someone could be completing the kit at home and ruining evidence instead of gathering it.

  25. How about, instead of talking about rape kits, we talk about how 95% of convicted rapists will never spend a single day behind bars? Seems like a bigger fucking problem to me

  26. My job has me working very closely with sexual assault victims, prosecutors, and the police.
    These kits are Great news for rapists.
    This lady has solved a problem without really understanding the problem.

  27. To the attorney saying not all evidence is admissible…yes. That’s true.
    Just like not all cancer treatments are 100% effective…
    But, if I had cancer, I sure wouldn’t rub essential oils on it and hope for the best.

  28. "Profiting off of rape survivors" maybe but isn't that any news agency as well? If news covers a raper victim or sexual assault aren't they indirectly profiting off of the rape survivor? Just because it is directly affiliated and has a cost does not mean it is a bad thing. In fact I would argue its proactive. Security isn't free how is this any different?

  29. These should not be on the market. The real solution would be to get more nurses trained to be SAFES. That way it's there for the people that need it.

  30. These products are so problematic. I interned as a sexual assault victim advocate and have seen many rape kits performed. It is very important that the nurse knows what she is doing so nothing is miss labeled or mixed up. They also know what they are looking for. Contraception and medicine to prevent STDs are always offered and I’ve never seen them be refused. Then all the evidence stays with the nurse until picked up by a police officer or investigator. Even if there is not a SANE able to be there a “regular” nurse can collect evidence because the kit comes with instructions. As a current nursing student I plan on going to SANE training after graduating. Please do not let these kits become a product on the shelf. It will provide so much false hope to victims and survivors. The chain of custody is not adequate. Also I won’t even get into how it could easily be used to frame someone.

  31. Wow as a father of two boys this video is both enlightening my mind but scared at the same time I’m a strong believer in the #BelieveHer But I can see these kits being missed used by less than honest women. What happens when one of my boys thankfully are too young to date cheats on a girl or breaks her heart and this kit is used to destroy his future and reputation. I understand the psychological safety and emotion of these kits but from a legal standpoint I just don’t think they are appropriate.

  32. I like the idea of them being in schools and colleges to get kids to talk to a s/c nurse about what's best because I know it took 4 days to finally open up about one guy but due to it being 4 days and me scrubbing my self rore by time the police interviewed me I was told no evidence no case so if I could have got one of these kits from the bath room or an office I think I'd of done better and not blame myself for talking about it and all that I dropped out and really hit the drink and drugs and getting my self in bad situation. That was 8 years ago I'm doing better now x

  33. It probably wouldnt hold up legally, which sucks because people complain so often about their treatments at hospitals never being actually looked at and utilized. :/

  34. I don't believe that the creater have intents to make serious profit off of these kits. And even if they did, can they be really at fault. Pharmacical companies aren't expected to produce drugs (which in many cases are more necessary that a rape kit) without getting paid, why should the creators of these kits be paid. (I know that I may be ignoring some of the shady costing for drugs in my argument)
    Also while it is free for victims to get exams and support from a hospital, it doesn't come without some cost to the hospital. Someone else is just paying.

  35. I think a better option would be to increase awareness of what exactly a medical examination would entail and that you have the ability to skip any part you're not comfortable with. Take away the mystery

  36. Yeah, a prisoner in a prison environment collecting DNA evidence of an officer that assaulted them is a far cry from what most rape victims are likely to face. Using an outlier like this to prop up the credibility of their kits seems dishonest in the extreme.

  37. uses a woman in prison and the semen she collected to say someone who isnt locked in a place and capable of say…rummaging in the guys trash to find a used condom…is a terrible comparison.

    of course! how could the inmate get the semen from the guard otherwise? so admitted.

    but if Jane can come take some condom semen from me from my trash and charge me…get fucked that wont hold up.

  38. – Harmful: Legal entities are unlikely to see this as admissible. The example about the inmate and the guard is unique as it was an incarceration institution for women so the only culprit was going to be a man in power at the facility.
    – Harmful: The kit provides no evidence whatsoever to the origin of the samples taken. Ex-boyfriend? One-night-stand? Consensual sex with regrets later? It potentially becomes a means to criminalize sex outside of sexual assault (provided the kit was legally admissible).
    – Harmful: Survivors, thinking they're safe by using this product, may have a false sense of security. The mental and emotional ramifications of that sense of security being shattered later are extremely detrimental and will likely lead to feelings of not being believed, trusted, or be able to get help of any kind.

    I've no doubt these people may have the best of intentions, but there's a reason why they say such things pave the road to Hell. If these people really want to be helpful, show survivors that they're not alone and can get actual help and support. Give them a reason to trust support systems so they are more willing to come forward. Building that trust cannot be found in a DIY rape kit.

  39. I work in a crime lab processing actual SA kits and these “at home” kits are a huge issue. Our lab, along with many others flat out refuse them because they’re just so volatile when it comes to the C.O.C. If you’re assaulted, PLEASE go to a hospital so a SANE can collect your evidence properly. There are swabs (vaginal, anal, oral, external, internal) and TONS of different wipes/debris collection bindles/undergarments containers that need to be collected professionally too. You’re literally wasting your money and good solid evidence if you don’t, good intentions or not.

  40. As a forensic science graduate student, I can tell you that the chain of custody is almost as important as the evidence itself. If an individual can’t determine who had the evidence and when they had the evidence it leaves a lot of questions legally. Not to forget also the proper collection of evidence. DNA is relatively fragile and if not collected properly can be degraded, lost, or destroyed.

  41. I like the idea of at-home rape kits. I'm a man, but if I were ever in a situation where I needed one, especially if I was a woman, I don't know if I'd be able to convince myself to go to a hospital right away. It'd be embarrassing, though it really isn't and shouldn't be, but if there was an at-home kit I'd feel far more comfortable with and be a hundred times more likely to use it than go get a medical examination immediately.

    That being said, I cannot support the present products, they do not help. They're better than doing absolutely nothing, but all the evidence collected is only valid if a judge deems it so, so it's entirely based on the judge's whim at that time. Going through the effort of getting one and collecting the evidence just for it to be thrown out would feel horrible, I'm sure, and it would without a doubt be a setback for any legal action.

    People who commit rape should be thoroughly and completely obliterated in the most painful way possible, I fully believe public torture is the best option, but at the very least they shouldn't walk free. The current at home kits do little to actually help the victim recover and the rapist get caught.

  42. What if anything do these products do to prove sexual assault as opposed to sexual contact? It seems this product, based on the description given, seems like it would just be a DNA sample on a swab. A real "rape kit" includes comprehensive documentation that would speak to it actually being assault, an issue I'm sure would be raised in court. The situation with the prisoner and guard is very different, as any sexual contact between them would confirm the issue at hand, given their relationship as well as the inherent and massive power difference.

  43. Yeah sure… wanted a chance to profit from a survivors trauma,that's what it's about,you being a victim yourself you'd think you'd make these kits avaliable for free to said victims…..but hey what do I know right?
    And how many people are going to be framed because of these kits?cause if right now with competent authorities handling things men are being arrested and having their lives ruined by vindictive women and women seeking many more will be framed by this?a woman just needs to get her hands on some DNA from a man she used to be with and the will to ruin his life and boom there's you go,she shows up with the swab with his sperm from a time they had consensual sex and the dude is done….
    Do women actually think about the shit they say and do beforehand or it just comes out?
    Cause yeah you may be a good person who wouldn't do this,but you know there's definitely women who'd do this in the blink of an eye with no remorse!

  44. Like many in these comments, I see these SAKs (Sexual Assault Kit) as more of a detriment to the victim than any solace it could provide. I am no victim nor forensic personnel, so I cannot emphasize trauma like others, but I know that there are far too many loopholes for these kits to be helpful.

    Even if you didn't see the perpetrator, you will probably be seen as a biased party looking to put someone away for your trauma, but it needs to be the right person. I want to believe the people who would use this are only rightful victims, but bad apples of stories have put far too much doubt into a self-examination. I still remember the story Phil covered a few years back of a woman who claimed an officer raped her when he pulled her over. That story, as Phil soon after revealed, was that the woman had made a false claims in order to get out of a ticket. She never received any official punishment, however, because she never actually filed a police report. She just told the internet and let them bully the officer into temporary hiding. Stories like those, and like Jesse Smiley's, are why I wouldn't find those rape kits effective, especially when administered alone or around an unbiased party.

    If an exam, done by an unbiased medical professional, were to be done, the SANE/SAFE and any unbiased witness would be better since they can help reduce any concern of tampering the prosecuted's defense may bring up. Besides, these personnel are employed for this reason. Think of it another way like venting your problems and seeking mental help. Talking to a friend when you want therapy may help in an immediate sense, but it is always better to seek someone who specializes specifically in said field.

    Anyways, this is just my opinion.

  45. Some things i dont understand or are concerns of mine:
    1. Im supposed to buy a kit, just IN CASE this happens, and let it sit in my closet collecting dust
    2. Evidence will likely be thrown out in court
    3. I can see vengeful women/men having sex with someone and then turn around and accuse them of rape, using this kit as a means.
    We live in a world where people accuse others of rape when it didnt happen. Now you're giving people a kit that requires no photographic evidence to prove an assault. Part of the investigation at a hospital includes looking for proof of rape, besides just semen collection. There are so many ways this can be used to hurt someone instead of helping a victim

  46. Rape statistics are impossible to know. If a woman tells me she has been raped I always assume she's only doing so to get sympathy and try to manipulate me. It doesn't matter if she's lying or not.

  47. I feel like are in an age of people trying to do things on their own when there should be a professional at hand. I don't think they should be allowed unless they are absolutely going to be 100 given a proper chain of command and used in court. It would offer a false sense of security and leave people with no actual evidence for their case. I see that they where trying to create something where there was a need, but the fact is that there is a need for SAFS not kits and their efforts should be placed there instead. The branding having the Me Too tied to it feels like an abuse of the movement to me.

  48. As someone who has gone through the traditional/hospital route of an exam I can tell you to always contact RAINN prior to going to the hospital. They arranged for the specialty nurse/examiners to meet me there. Also they don't always take pictures any more as it's very invasive. They mark or draw on diagrams. As stated they want to be as non invasive as possible due to the nature of this crime. I chose to report and proceed with legal action, ultimately the case was dismissed and dropped leaving me with severe mental and physical damage/distress with no justice or vindication.

  49. Because that's what we need… an easy way to create fake rape allegations and "bolster" it with "SEE, I DID THE KIT!".
    A campaign to put them in colleges? Why not just tell female students "Hey, that guy who broke your heart? We'll make it easy for you to ruin his life."?
    These are a HORRIBLE idea PRECISELY for all the legal reasons.

  50. I definitely believe they were made with the right intention, but if experienced people are saying it's a bad thing I believe them. I probably would have tested myself if I could do it without involving others, after the situation of assault I survived. But if that wouldn't be admissable in court it wouldn't be much use anyways right?

  51. I really dont like how this video glossed over how totally invasive and humiliating that kind of exam can be. Imagine having a stranger examine your genitals literally right after you were sexually assaulted, remember you have to go straight to the hospital after it happens.
    This video also does not make it clear what the difference between a 'rape kit' and an 'at-home rape kit'. The evidence collected by the doctors that she talks about is what is commonly referred to as a 'rape kit'. These are the rape kits that there is a HUGE backlog of.

  52. As a victim of rape that took 3 months to finally report it, I understand why they came up with the idea, BUT, as someone who studied Forensics, I feel like this can leave a false since of security making the victim feel that they can possibly use it to catch their rapist and get justice when that just may not be true. Also, this can give people a way to falsely accuse someone, and completely destroy their life!

  53. There should be a bigger focus on creating welcoming environments for victim reporting, not at home kits that you can't guarantee are sterile

  54. If there were rape kits allowed, I don't think it should be sold. I dont want to BUY a rape kit when I could get evidence gathered with no cost at the hospital.

  55. Regardless of how they intend to be profitable the fact that they intend to be profitable at all, whether it's free to the end-user or not, is kind of disgusting and that the person being assaulted or raped is not paying doesn't really give any comfort to the fact that they're hijacking the name of a movement to shill an unnecessary, and potentially harmful product, if the evidence were to be ruled inadmissible and they didnt visit a doctor because they had faith in the kit and lie they were sold or given.

  56. I think this is taking advantage of vulnerable people. They are selling snake oil. A rape kit that will likely never be admissible in court and that the victim has to pay for. Maybe I am cynical but I think the person found a way to profit off of women's fears and a powerful non capitalistic movement. I think what the nurse said was so important. The value of a real rape kit goes far beyond the criminal implications, the health care that people can receive is so critical. I'm worry that vulnerable and afraid people will spend money that they can't afford on this believing it to be the equivalent when it is not.

  57. Ideally, there should be a S.A.F.E. at every emergency room. Inconvenience/the inability to get the right tests and treatment should be eliminated as much as possible

  58. Call it anything…anything but a metoo kit. It a hot button term-largely b/c sexism-so it's best, imho, not to give a judge, D.A., jury or anyone in the adjudication process ANY reason to apply inherent (even if unconcious) biases into a serious issue with potentially deep consequence, whether admissable or not. I would market it differently, nominating a clear but more clinical and uncharged name. There are too many people around the world, of all genders that would reject all discussion of merit for the product simply because of the name on the label. The brand name on a box should not inspire predetermined outcome.

  59. really interesting topic today. im worried about the legal issue of whether or not these are admissible in court but also… could these be used to accuse people of sexual assault after CONSENSUAL sex.

  60. People talking about legal reasons and such why this is bad. And here am I thinking how fucking paranoid do you have to be of getting raped that you would get such a thing. I get it's a scary thing, but their are sensible measures to take then ones that kinda say you're a bit nutty in the head. But maybe this is just me, since i honestly think people are getting seemingly more paranoid and distrusting now adays. Like many people are trying to find something they can call an enemy or seek out something for them to fear.

  61. Lots of problems with these kits, but the primary issue is that chain of custody exists for a reason and evidence collected for legal purposes MUST BE accompanied by the custody log (at least, that was the case when I worked in specimen collection and processing — and I collected plenty of specimens for legal purposes). Another issue is that those who are not trained can contaminate samples and cause other collections issues that render the evidence void for legal purposes.
    I also have some concerns about these kits being used after consensual intercourse which could cause some serious legal problems. Think about this: if the Brian Banks case happened today and he'd had consensual intercourse with Wanetta Gibson, Ms. Gibson could have used one of these kits to bolster her false claims. Or parents who catch their kids having consensual intercourse and then use these to fabricate claims out of anger. There's also the potential to use these kits for "cancel culture" type shaming rather than actually pressing legal charges. Rape is bad and it is wrong, but "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" dictates that people's lives aren't destroyed by mere allegations.
    Evidence collection performed by trained professionals is free and will not (generally) result in the evidence being rejected from courtroom proceedings. I don't want to go so far as to say they should be banned, because if people want to waste their money on something that does absolutely no good (and may actually do real harm), that's their right. But these companies and these kits are not helpful or useful for anything other than giving victims false assurance that they can choose to go to police at a later date with this "evidence" when the "evidence" is almost guaranteed to be thrown out by any sensible judge.

  62. As a father of 2 girls I will be teaching them to speak out there’s something kind of crazy here that I didn’t hear you talk about. So with these at home rape kits would it be possible for someone to use one after every sexual interaction they have and simply sit on them so that in the event that they change their mind later or get angry with their partner they could then claim rape and use the at home kit as evidence? I’m actually just curious about this cause if it’s possible then that’s a massive loophole that though most people wouldn’t use the few that do would completely break the trust of the actual victims hence while I’ll be teaching my girls to report immediately period!

  63. I just don't see how this self-gathered evidence would be admissible in court. The stated example of a female inmate is a special circumstance for a variety of legal reasons and those reasons wouldn't apply to a non-inmate. It's really hard, but I think that you just have to go to a hospital if there's any possibility you'll report the assault.

  64. If I was a survivor I would much rather get all of the help I can get for free instead of paying for a kit at home that there’s no guarantee of it being held up in court. Why not take everything you can get for free including health and injury service. (Not trying time offend anyone because I know even attempted rape is traumatic because my mom was almost raped and that was decades ago)

  65. This angers me so much as a survivor. I understand the reasoning for wanting to make this but it is completely pointless, it will just end up getting thrown out in court

  66. Instead of making these they should put their money into funding for rape kits to be tested in a more timely manner and to train more Safes

  67. This seems like a well intentioned product that to me misses the mark legally and scientifically. I don't see states allowing this as evidence, and any defence attorney probably will get this thrown out. Also I doubt most survivors would be in a good enough head space to self administer these kitsch in away to protect evidence, so if they want this to hold up legally they probably would need someone else to do this. I mean sweat, a cough, a sneeze, dropping the swab probably makes this unusable in court. To me this makes the survivor feel like they are being proactive for their own headspace and nothing else. Also for the prison rape case mentioned, I am guessing the only reason it was allowed was for fear any prison employee/contractor in medical services, it may have been feared there may be a conflict of interest since they are coworkers of the accused. Like how if there is a crime involving a cop, usually another agency (county state, or federal) investigates to try to avoid conflict of interest.

  68. We need to focus more on making sure every single hospital in America has trained professionals to help victims. We also need to work on our attitudes toward rape survivors. FFS people still think men can't be raped 😡 I worry these at home kits would have a much higher rate of being thrown out than evidence collected by a professional.

  69. I believe the original idea was one of assisting people and then someone figured they could also make a buck. When then got called on how crappy that was they're back peddling.

  70. to sum; We don't have anywhere near enough specialists and access to resources, let alone public knowledge, so capitalism has swooped in to interfere in a way that can get cases completely thrown out or messed up to the point that they auto-lose and can't get a repeal.

    where is the failure?

    Didn't know about the law Washington passed, I am a very proud Washingtonian right now.

  71. The motive of those selling these kits is dishonest, much like the legal example they gave of a woman self gathering evidence in prison is dishonest. It's not an apples for apples comparison to self gathering evidence in a free environment.
    In a prison where the guards have a duty of care over the inmates, it is instantly an abuse of power to have sexual relations; Therefore the presence of semen is automatically highly questionable.

  72. Yeah it doesn't sound like a good idea, sounds begging to be abused. Could you imagine staring down the wrong end of a rape conviction based on some crazy ex gf's rape kit? Craziness.

    People think about court in a very simplistic manner because they watch a lot of TV, but in reality court is VERY specific about evidence, chain of custody, etc., and none of that can be established with a DIY kit. Could you imagine collecting a knife from a murder with a mail-order bag for some friend of the family to take care of? That's insanity. It could never hold up in court, nor should it. People read their biased news sources and say "that person is guilty, throw them in jail", but in reality in the US it's "innocent until proven guilty", so if you want to convict somebody, shit needs to be done RIGHT the first time. This stuff won't hold up in court, nor should it. Get raped, PLEASE go to the hospital! It's best for your own physical and mental wellbeing, and it's best if you'd later like to pursue the rapist in a court of law.

    Also, yes, of course the company is taking advantage of the meetoo movement, but that's what capitalism is, I can't really fault them for proper marketing, even if it's slimy.

  73. To answer "your" question directly; no, companies are making profit off of unfound and illegal properties and that is wrong. At the same time, it gives some random people the "power" to abuse the system. Say Jane/John Doe goes out and has sex. She/He wakes up and looks next to his/her and is now less than satisfied. She/He can now claim rape, and have "sexual evidence" to prove it. As someone who has dealt with sexual abuse, I still can't condone this. It is inadmissible as evidence as far as I'm concerned.

  74. I understand why you would want to use these kits. But I worry for those who would use them later as evidence. It seems like the example of the woman in jail who was able to collect her own evidence was admissible because there was almost zero possibility that she could have otherwise obtained the sample due to the fact that she was locked up. Considering that, they really should be free. I just hope it’s very apparent to survivors (like big bold print in the kit) that the evidence they gather may not help them later. The product should also advise that they go get checked. This should be a last resort. I don’t know. Its a very delicate situation.

    There’s also no excuse for untested kits.

  75. The conviction of the Correction Officer isn't really a good example because an inmate, by law, cannot give consent to an officer. Just the fact that the inmate had the guards semen should be a slam dunk conviction

  76. Obviously a sexual assault exam is very uncomfortable, I never had one done but wish I did so my abuser didn’t get away with it but you need to get examined for another reason and that is to be checked for STI’s something I have done.

  77. This is a double edged sword for it "might" help people who have had this happen out but at the same time we have those who "might" use this product as a means to lure and blackmail people with it.

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