[Joseph Rishel] We all know this image of this man scrunched over, big furrowed brow. I’m Joe Rishel. I’m a curator at the Philadelphia Museum and one of my happiest obligations is also to be in charge of the Rodin Museum. We’re standing here in front of the world’s most famous sculpted images. It’s The Thinker by Auguste Rodin. [Mark di Suvero] Rodin, he had a tremendous influence on my work. My name is Mark di Suvero and I am a sculptor. I have been working in wood and steel for the last 50 years. [Rishel] This, from Rodin’s point of view, is every man. He’s none of these things which public sculpture is often about when depicting heroes. The president, the czar, the cardinal, anything like that. This is universal mankind stripped of any attribute – he’s buck naked. But Rodin was really trying to do here is to create this everyman who is heroically splendid. [di Suvero] He was able to elevate, to the level of sculpture, people and scenes that weren’t considered worthy. [Rishel] This is a working physique of someone who builds railroads, who works at a steel factory or something. This is the beginning of a very romantic fantasy that every man is the worker. Look closely because it is a very unrealistic thing. If this guy stood up, he would be, what, 18 feet tall. The back, it is so anatomically not by the books. Way beyond observed anatomy or any muscle you care to develop in the gym. [di Suvero] Sure there’s a big back and there’s the muscles of the legs that are so well done. But it isn’t that that captures you. The way that the body is crouched in that kind of complete concentration is the real thrust of the piece’s sculpture. [Rishel] Rodin says himself “What makes my Thinker think is that he thinks not only with his brain, but with his knitted brow, with his distended nostrils, and his compressed lips. With every muscle of his arms, back and legs, and the clinched fist and the gripping toes.” This is a total thinking machine. [di Suvero] Real, human effort to make a visual document for a thought. How are you going to take essentially a thought, which is lighter than air and between people and you can’t touch it? So taking The Thinker, making him naked, making him furrowed browed, with a fist in his chin, as if he is thinking, is the closest thing that one can come. Look at the stone that The Thinker is sitting on. The bronze stone is most definitely not a chair and is not something that he has come out of. It’s just a place just to be and it works because it is as opposite to a thought as well, what is more opposite to thinking than a stone. [Rishel] He’s really giving a very big effort to something very serious, which is the thought. What is that thought? I leave to you, but that’s the fun of looking at this.